> Well, I am not Armenian,
I guess that means you're not from Armenia.
Did you mean "Arminian," perhaps? : - )
> Do not Judge,
See www.outsidethecamp.org/rightjudg.htm .
> No doubt, you find it
impossible to PROCLAIM
> TO ALL the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
On the contrary - I do proclaim the gospel to all without exception. This
gospel -- the true gospel of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and
imputed righteousness of Christ alone -- is going out all over the world.
Praise God.
> It is obvious you SECOND
> GUESS God in validating all the household of God. Are you concerned
> there might occur some SHORTAGE of the SUPPLY of God's GRACE towards
> man?
Hmmm ... let's think about this for a minute. Suppose I wrote an article saying
that all Jehovah's Witnesses are unregenerate. Would you say that I am
"disrespecting" the JW's? Would you say that I am "second
guessing God in validating all the household of God?" Would you ask me if
I were "concerned there might occur some shortage
of the supply of God's grace towards man"? After all, JW's are just in
error about the person of Christ. Who am I to judge JW's to be unregenerate?
Think about it.
For anyone who's interested, below are some links to web pages in which
unregenerate people ask questions and I respond:
www.outsidethecamp.org/letters33.htm
www.outsidethecamp.org/letters44.htm
www.outsidethecamp.org/letters72(1).htm
www.outsidethecamp.org/letters72(2).htm
I wrote:
> Ask an Arminian what he means by "atonement" and you will find
> > that he says that his "jesus christ" atoned for the evil deeds of
> everyone
> > without exception, yet there are some for whom this "jesus" atoned
> who go to
> > hell anyway.
dean198 responded:
> No actually Arminians do
not teach that. At least I have never heard
> it. What I have heard is that the death of Christ makes salvation
> possible for all men, but it only actually cleanses sin when somebody
> believes.
See the quotes below.
Even if some believed in the "general amnesty" or "makes
salvation possible" theory, this is no less damnable. It is no less of a
false gospel. If Christ's death only made salvation possible, then it
is not the work of Christ alone that makes the difference between salvation and
damnation. It is not the work of Christ alone that ensures the salvation of
those for whom He died. Instead, it is the effort of the sinner that makes the
difference between salvation and damnation. Whatever one believes makes the
difference between salvation and damnation is what one boasts in, what one
glories in. If one believes that Christ's death made salvation possible,
then one does not boast/glory in the cross of Christ; one boasts/glories in
self.
I wrote:
> In the false gospel of
> > universal atonement, their "jesus christ" took the place of and
> took on the
> > sins of every single human being without exception.
dean198 responded:
> CAn
you give me the reference where Arminius or Wesley et al ever
> taught such a scheme? Of course you cannot!
The following quotes are a response to both responses by dean198. For more on
John Wesley, see www.outsidethecamp.org/wesley.htm.
<<"What! Can the blood of Christ burn in hell? Or
can the purchase by the blood of Christ go thither?" I answer,
... If the oracles of God are true, one who was purchased by the blood
of Christ may go thither. For he that was sanctified by the blood of Christ was
purchased by the blood of Christ. But one who was sanctified by the blood of
Christ may nevertheless go to hell; may fall under that fiery indignation which
shall for ever devour the adversaries.">> (Wesley, Works, Vol. 10, p. 297)
<<..."the price of
the death of Christ was given for all and for every one,"
... Let those who reject the former of these opinions consider how they can
answer the following scriptures, which declare, that Christ died for all men;
that He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world; (1 John ii,2;)
that He took away the sin of the world; (John i,29;) that he gave his flesh for
the life of the world; (John vi,51;) that Christ died even for that man who
might be destroyed with the meat of another person; (Rom. xiv,15;) and that
false teachers make merchandize even of those who deny the Lord that bought
them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction; (2 Peter II,1,3.)>> (Arminius, Works, Vol. 1, p. 316)
Clarke on 1 Tim 2:6:
<<Who gave himself a
ransom - ... the word used here, and applied to the death of Christ, signifies
that ransom which consists in the exchange of one person for another, or the
redemption of life by life; ... As God is the God and father of all, (for there
is but one God, 1Ti 2:5), and Jesus Christ the mediator of all, so he gave
himself a ransom for all; i.e., for all that God made, consequently for every
human soul; unless we could suppose that there are human souls of which God is
not the Creator;>>
Clarke on 2 Cor. 5:19:
<<And that this Christ
might be adequate to the great work of reconciling the whole human race to God,
by making atonement for their sins, God was in him. ... Christ, by his offering
upon the cross, made atonement for the sins of the world; and therefore one
important branch of the doctrine of this reconciliation was to show that God
would not impute or account their trespasses to them, so as to exact the
penalty, because this Jesus had died in their stead. ... To redeem you out of
this most wretched and accursed state, God; in his endless love, has given his
Son for you; who has assumed your nature, and died in your stead.>>
Wesley on John 1:29:
<<who taketh away - Atoneth for; the
sin - That is, all the sins: of the world - Of all mankind. Sin and the world
are of equal extent.>>
Wesley on 1 John 2:2:
<<And he is the
propitiation - The atoning sacrifice by which the wrath of God is appeased. For
our sins - Who believe. And not for ours only, but
also for the sins of the whole world - Just as wide as sin extends, the
propitiation extends also .>>
Wesley on 2 Peter 2:1:
<<The Lord that bought
them - With his own blood. Yet these very men perish everlastingly. Therefore
Christ bought even them that perish.>>
These Arminians believed that Jesus died for, purchased, sanctified,
propitiated, took away the sin of, bought, made atonement for, gave himself a
ransom for, reconciled, and redeemed everyone without exception, including
those who are burning in hell. This is damnable. Any who do not recognize it as
such do not know what the gospel is.
For any who are interested in knowing the true gospel, please see the series of
sermons on the gospel at www.outsidethecamp.org/sermons.htm
.
To God alone be the glory,
Marc D. Carpenter
> Jesus died and atoned for all
It is very clear. All universal atonement advocates say that Jesus ATONED for
everyone without exception, including those in hell. Atonement means
reconciliation -- reconciliation between God and the
people for whom Christ died. If Christ died for everyone, then every single
person has been reconciled to God. And if every single person has been
reconciled to God, then when God sends people to hell, He is a liar.
> God wanted ALL to spend
eternity in His presence, but not all
> will believe.
Oh, your poor, weak, disappointed god! Your god WANTED something, yet what he
WANTED didn't come to pass. He is a god of unfulfilled desires. Because there
are people in hell for eternity, your god must be eternally disappointed. Poor weakling. I thought this list was about the SOVEREIGNTY
of God, not the emasculation of god.
My God, who is the true and living sovereign God of the universe, never has an
unfulfilled desire -- for if He did, He wouldn't be God.
"But He is in one mind, and who can turn Him? Yea, His soul desires, and
He does it" (Job 23:13).
"But our God is in Heaven; He has done all that He has pleased"
(Psalm 115:3).
"For I know that Jehovah is great, and our Lord is above
all gods. Every thing which Jehovah was
pleased to do, He did, in the heavens and in the earth, and in the seas and all
deep places" (Psalm 135:5-6).
"As streams of waters, the king's heart is in the hand of Jehovah; He
turns it wherever He desires" (Proverbs 21:1).
"declaring the end from the beginning, and from
the past those things which were not done, saying, My counsel shall rise; and,
I will do all my desire" (Isaiah 46:10).
All praise and glory and honor to the Almighty Sovereign King of Kings and Lord
of Lords, who DOES all that He DESIRES.
Marc