You wrote: "I wish you guys would go the whole way and emasculate yourselves."
Ah, you accuse us of being like the Judaizers, adding requirements to the gospel. This is a common accusation. People accuse us of
saying that we require certain prerequisites or conditions in order for a person to be saved, such as knowledge of doctrine. Thus, they
accuse us of works salvation. But this is absolutely false. Salvation is NOT conditioned on ANYTHING the sinner does or is
enabled to do, including knowledge of any doctrine. Please see www.outsidethecamp.org/doctregen.htm and
www.outsidethecamp.org/credenda.htm . Salvation is the work of God ALONE, with NO contribution AT ALL from the sinner. So
attainment of salvation is not based on ANY BELIEF in ANY THEOLOGY.
Now what happens when God saves someone? He immediately causes that person to BELIEVE the GOSPEL. And what do all who
BELIEVE the GOSPEL believe? They believe in the PERSON of Christ (God-Man Mediator) and the WORK of Christ (establishing
a righteousness that ensures and demands the salvation of all whom He represented through His atoning blood and imputed
righteousness). There's not a single regenerate person who does not believe in Christ's PERSON and Christ's WORK. And those
who believe in universal atonement do NOT believe some "lesser version" of the true gospel -- they believe in a COMPLETELY
So if you'd like to learn the truth about the Judaizers/Pharisees, see www.outsidethecamp.org/pharisee.htm . It is the ARMINIANS
who would fit this description. If they teach that there is something OTHER THAN the work of Christ alone that makes the
difference between salvation and damnation, then they should just go all the way and emasculate themselves.
To God alone be the glory,
Marc D. Carpenter
> well the thing that bothers me about your beliefs is the attacking of
> arminians and claiming that they are unsaved.I think it is extremely
> arrogant and judgemental.
The gospel is God's promise to save His people conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ alone.
All who believe the gospel believe that it is the work of Jesus Christ alone that makes the difference between salvation and
damnation. Those who believe in universal atonement do not believe that it is the work of Christ alone that makes the difference;
instead, they believe that it is the effort of the sinner that makes the difference. This is a damnable false gospel of salvation
conditioned on the sinner. All who believe a false gospel are unsaved. Thus, all who believe in universal atonement are unsaved.
Please see www.outsidethecamp.org/gospatone.htm .
Regarding being judgmental, please see www.outsidethecamp.org/rightjudg.htm .
Regarding being arrogant, please see www.outsidethecamp.org/truefalse10.htm .
> I myself believe in the limited attonement but I
> also know alot of arminian christians who i believe are saved, but just a
> bit confused.
So you believe that the difference between the gospel you believe and the gospel they believe is one of DEGREE rather than KIND.
And I would agree with that. The gospel you believe is basically the same as the gospel they believe. It is a false gospel. Both you
and the Arminians are unsaved. But the difference between the TRUE GOSPEL and the false gospel of universal atonement is NOT
one of degree; it is one of KIND. The difference between salvation conditioned on the sinner and salvation conditioned on the work
of Christ alone is a difference in essential, vital doctrine. One is the true gospel, the other is a false gospel. They are completely
different gospels. You do not understand this because you have not been given eyes to see. You are yet dead in your sins.
> These doctrines are hard for people to understand
> and it is one
> that is not taught in alot of churches.
It is true that the true gospel is not taught in a lot of churches. So? Your point? The doctrine itself is not hard to understand. Even a
child can understand the gospel.
> The deciding factor to be
> saved is to
> call upon the name of the Lord, believe in one's heart that Jesus
> Christ is
> Lord and died on the cross for their sins and rose from the dead
> three days
> later, and also confess this with their mouth.
Absolutely WRONG. And it proves my point that you and the Arminians believe the same gospel. The deciding factor is NOT what
the sinner does; it is what CHRIST has done. Belief and confession are FRUITS of salvation, not prerequisites or conditions of salvation.
And what does it mean to call on the name of the Lord? What does it mean to confess that Jesus is Lord? The Arminians call on the
name of a false god, a false jesus who did not secure the salvation of anyone.
> Just because a
> person doesn't
> believe your very hard to understand and deep beliefs (which i
> beleive most
> of) doesn't mean they're unsaved.
The gospel is not some deeper or higher belief that only seminarians can understand; it is easy enough for a child to believe. It is the
work of Christ alone.
> Only God not you or church can judge
Wrong. Christians are commanded to judge. See www.outsidethecamp.org/rightjudg.htm .
> Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as their savior and
> loves God and
> his neighbor as God imparts the grace for them to do so, then
> they're saved
> and should be fellowshiped with and considered a brother or sister in
What does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ as one's Savior? Universal atonement advocates certainly do not believe that Jesus Christ
is a Savior.
> The reason i said that i wish you would go and emasculate
> completely is because portray a false gospel that says that it takes more
> than faith in Christ but a deeper understanding of the nature of how they
> got saved.
Wrong. Salvation is not conditioned on anything the sinner does or is enabled to do. It is not conditioned on a deeper understanding
of anything. It is conditioned on the work of Christ alone. Salvation is not conditioned on knowledge of anything. Now what happens
when God saves someone? Does He leave that person without any knowledge? No. He causes that person to believe the gospel,
which includes KNOWLEDGE of certain things, including the WORK of Jesus Christ. So a KNOWLEDGE of the WORK of Jesus
Christ is not a prerequisite of salvation; it is an immediate and inevitable FRUIT of salvation. Get the difference?
> The limited attonement is very hard to grasp and on the surface
> for many apears to be universal.
It is hard for the unsaved to grasp. It appears to be universal to the unsaved. It is not hard for the saved to grasp. It does not appear to
be universal to the saved. Why? Because all the saved believe THE GOSPEL of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and
imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ alone. All who believe the gospel believe that it is the work of Christ alone that makes the
difference between salvation and damnation, that ensures and demands the salvation of all whom Christ represented on the cross.
> Requirements for salvation does
> not include
> these theological understandings.
Correct. But you are accusing us of believing this, which we don't. There are no requirements for salvation that a sinner must meet.
> It is by faith alone in Christ
> which is by
> faith and faith is by grace.We have been saved by grace.
Christians are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. And when God saves someone, He gives that person a
knowledge and understanding of the essential doctrines of the gospel.
To God alone be the glory,
Marc D. Carpenter
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